Monday, December 17, 2007

Sound Off on the Week 19 National Prep Football Poll

This is the place to leave your comments, questions and other observations about the Week 19 National Prep Football Poll.

Please keep your remarks clean and at least somewhat mature in nature. Otherwise, they will be deleted.

Now, fire away.


JustaFloridaBoy said...

I said it all last year; 6A is the weakest class in Florida, and the debacle in the 6A championship game gave witness to that point. That game should not be looked upon as a testament of how good MNW is, but rather an indication of the weakness of the 6A class. For the life of me, I couldn’t understand why Orlando Boone was playing in the championship game, or undefeated for that matter. I was embarrassed as a Floridian that they were being viewed as the second best team in the state for 6A.

The S.O.S is still an issue for me as well. Granted, they played a national power this year. However, they still have not ventured out of the Greater Miami-Dade Area to play a traditional state power program during the regular season. Heck, they don’t even play the power programs in their own area, particularly BT Washington and Monsignor Pace. But yet, they find time and money in the budget to travel across the country to prove they are worthy. It becomes more hilarious when they want to discuss the abundance of talent in Florida (that they don’t play against).

St. Thomas Aquinas beat Kissimmee Osceola who beat Lakeland who smashed Boyd Anderson who smashed Deerfield Beach who beat St. Thomas Aquinas, and almost beat MNW. What we have is a big circle that only establishes that some teams match-up better against other teams; and just because Team A beats Team B and Team B beats Team C, it doesn’t mean that Team A can beat Team C. That being said, after watching St. Thomas play the past two weeks, I have no doubt Lakeland would have beaten them again had they made it to the championship game. And although I was sympathetically pulling for St. Thomas, it should be noted that St Thomas beat a Kissimmee team that was without its starting QB/DB who was very instrumental in beating Lakeland. Had he played, it probably would have been a different outcome; we will never know. I will say this: of all the games I saw 3A-6A; 5A was the most exciting and entertaining for both teams. Congrats St. Thomas! You deserve it.

Jamie, I have been meaning to ask: How do you justify placing Seffner Armwood in the prep poll at #10 a couple weeks back prior to them playing BT Washington? To me, it seemed as if you were hedging your bet, and fell into the Hillsborough Hump hype. Occurrences of that nature really make me question the validity of your poll.

My Top Five
St. Xavier
BT Washington/ Northwestern

South Panola

viking fan said...

# 20 in the USA
Pittsburgh Central Catholic has it all Run/ Pass/Defense - for 2 games this year they had mental lapses and still beat the best of the rest in pa - Max Prep had them at #4

The Hill said...

Let's not get ridiculous here. I really believe there is a bias when it comes to ranking south florida team. Question? Why is that every year there are several teams from oHio ranked in the top 25. Check the polls from the start of the year. St X. would not beat MNW. They invited Lakeland up last year and lost RIGHT! everyone of these biased voted from the mid-west seems to think OHio teams can beat florida teams. the record show different. this has been proven ever since this debate first arose when Miami Southridge was robbed of the National #1 ranking in favor of who... an ohio team St Ignatius. well southridge traveled to ohio and beat the brakes off of Moellen the next year and lakeland beat st. x last year. u of florida beat Ohio State. when can we get some credit from the voters from the mid west. what more do you need to see. tell you what. Call MNW and/or BTW and have them travel to OHio next year to settle this because this is becoming quite ridiculous.

prepsbill said...

7:08 anon...are you serious? Wasn't Lakeland Florida's best last year? Last year, St. X was #2 in the city, and they took Lakeland to OT. Do you honestly feel St. X is not a Top 10 team? They proved themselves ON THE FIELD this year, playing a much more competitive schedule than Northwestern. If you read the polls, I believe that Florida has 4 teams in the Top 25, 3 in the Top 10. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT...

PrepNationSports said...

Just a few minutes with which to respond this morning ...

For justafloridayboy:

The reason that Armwood moved to #10 at one point this season was to recognize that they were playing as well as any team in Florida, in our opinion. I find it funny that we catch so much heat from Florida folks for underrating their teams, but here we are catching heat for overrating one. We weren't "hedging our bet" on anything. These are rankings, not betting lines. But we did think that BTW would have a tough time beating Armwood. Of course, that did not materialize.

For VikingFan: I think PCC at #20 is more than fair. Folks I talk to in PA tell me that this PCC team isn't quite the caliber of the 2004 team that finished in the Top 5 nationally. This was a great team with a great season. But probably not considered one of the greatest teams in WPIAL history.

For TheHill: You are referring to Miami Southridge in 1993. Did you realize that NPP had Southridge #6 and USA Today had Southridge #5? In other words, neither ranking had Southridge right behind St. Ignatius, so I think it's hard to say that it was St. Ignatius over Southridge. The reason: kind of like this year, there was Bradenton Southeast also in the Top 6 of both polls and it was impossible to pick between the two teams. Both teams had such strong -- yet similar -- resumes. Whereas, Ignatius' case was clear-cut. One suggestion I would make in addition to having MNW or BTW come to Ohio and play -- how about they play each other! The best teams in Ohio generally play each other during the regular season or at least in the playoffs. Had MNW played and beaten BTW this season, they would have almost certainly been ranked No. 1 in our poll, as well.

Anonymous said...

just out of curiosity why was De La Salle moved down 3 spots after beating a team that was 11 in the country and still is 11 in the country?

The Hill said...

Why is that MNW or BTW have to travel to ohio, your teams won't travel. butin any case just make the phone call to Herbstreit and get it done. Facts are facts. As I said, there are always five or six teams from ohio ranked in the top 25 by you guys. If St.X played here in Dade County they would be about as good as Braddock Sr. High. who is Braddock? exactly my point. that is what St.X would be here in florida. I've seen St.X and yes they did take Lakeland to the wire last year. However it still fact that they LOST!! And Anyone who watched last year KNOWS that MNW was the best team in florida last year. Lakeland beat St.X without a half decent passing game. MNW had it all last year and proved it again this year with all the adversity they had to overcome. instead of overrating MNW or BTW, why not look at it in the words of the great Roy Jones Jr. I just make them look easy. And by the way I never said ST. X wasn't a top ten team, I just don't think they would be as good in South Florida or Beat MNW or BTW. you know the old saying SPEED KILLS and you know we got SPEED for days. even more than you seen from LAkeland last year. P.s you still haven't proven me wrong with the fact that an ohio team has not beaten a south florida team YET!! until then you have no arguement.

The Hill said...

It is also easy to play several ranked teams when there is a bias with placing those teams. of course they can play several teams that are ranked if those teams are right next to you. MNW or BTW cannot play several ranked teams because you guys don't don't enough teams ranked for them to play. secondly, MNW and BTW are inner coty schools who don't generally have the funds to make a travel schedule of big games. but I see St. X's schedule and they aren't playing the greatest of talented teams even though a couple were ranked. there little catholic school league games come on I've seen several games on FSN ohio to see if the play justifies the rankings and I have got to say Hell to the Naw!! it ain't even close. the teams are slow, and not greatly athletic. their best bet is to hope some type of coaching mistake is made. you know southlake could beat any team in Ohio and they were beaten up by MNW. don't just look at the final score. physically they were beaten up. and I would feel sorry for your little ST.X, Moellen, St.Ignatius, St.Edwards etc, b/c they would not have been use to that type of punishment.

Anonymous said...

hey hill...I do not write for Prep Nation, but have been involved with HS football for over 40 years.
You need to take a step back, and read what you wrote. You sound very bitter for some reason. You may not want to hear this but I can assure you that the top Ohio teams, and St. Xavier in particular can play with Northwestern, BTW etc. What I do not understand is your apparent resentment towards Ohio's CATHOLIC schools. FYI, it's Moeller, not Moellen. You take issue with Florida teams having to travel to Ohio for the Herbstreit Ohio Vs. USA Classic. Do you realize the expense involved for the travel, food, and lodging for this event? Apparently not. As for your "shots" at Ohio's Catholic schools, please remember, that some of these schools won mythical National Championships. Moeller, St. Ignatius have as much, if not more tradition and titles, than any school in Florida. You keep talking about the great Florida teams, and there are several outstanding teams this year. Not arguing there...but what point are you trying to make about the Catholic teams in Ohio? Yes, Lakeland beat St. X LAST YEAR in 3OT's by 3 points. THAT WAS LAST YEAR. Finally, you mention the bias? Bias about what? The problem is you call it a bias with placing those teams (BUT ALL THE TEAMS YOU MENTIONED WERE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS).

Anonymous said...

Just to add... reguarding last years St. X / Lakeland game.

Lakeland = national champs
St. X = Not even final 4 in state, yet the JR filled roster took the national champs to triple overtime. Those JRs are now SRs, big difference.

Also anyone who watched that game knows X gave it to them. They went for two instead of an extra point in the 3rd (?) quarter. Change that 1 decision, and Lakeland looses outright in regulation.

Paul said...

When was the last time Southlake TX, Carroll was not ranked nationally or regionally?

Mr. C said...

Jamie, I really enjoy your website, but am really curious about something. You know there are so many good HS football teams acroos the country. Why aren't more top tier teams playing eachother? I mean, everyone talks about Texas football being so great, but also Oklahoma teams being so great, why aren't they playing eachother? Same in Florida? You have a few teams ranked high in Florida, but they seem to never play eachother to really find out who the best is in Florida? Teams in Louisiana & Mississippi are very close to teams in Texas, why are they not playing eachother? Are there folks with any clout to kind of make this happen? For example as you might know, teams in Texas for next year right now, for the most part, do not know who their NON-district game opponents are going to be yet for the first few games of next year. Are there people trying to get big matchups right now. I have always been curious about this. I really like what OHIO does. Thank You Sir!

Mr. C

JustaFloridaBoy said...

Dear Hills (MNW): like you, I am also curious why so-called top programs are reluctant to come to Florida to play. I often here the old adage: “we’ll play anybody, any time, any place”; unfortunately, that any place doesn’t include Florida. In recent years, it seems that the Florida programs are the only ones willing to travel to the various states to state their case. If other national teams were to come to FL, I have no doubt they would lose by 21. That’s the only thing we agree on.

But as for MNW being the best of 2006…..Please! They didn’t even prove they were the best in their own city/county. You talk about more speed than Lakeland! Dude, no one on your team would have caught Rainy. No one! And if you compare Polk County teams to Dade County team’s head-to-head competition, Polk has the advantage.

What you must understand is this: Lakeland has beaten many teams who (on paper) were supposedly more talented. But the variable that many teams fell to account for is the winning tradition, coaching and the heart. For example, this year, Boyd Anderson was very similar in talent to MNW with D-1 players at ever skilled positions. They also ran a similar offensive scheme. However, they lost to Lakeland 30-6 when they were considered the 6A #2.

Whine; we don’t have the funds to travel! Excuses, excuse, excuses! Lakeland generally assists with the travel expenses for economically challenged teams that travel from a far. Just ask the other Miami teams we’ve played, not only do you get a butt whooping, they also get feed.

Until Next Season…………………………….

JustaFloridaBoy said...

Anonymous 7:38 AM:

To this day you all still reference the Lakeland game as a measurement of St. X’s success. So let me put this issue to rest once and for all. “St. X only lost by 3! St X lost in overtime! St. X gained more yards!” So what, St X lost! And the only reason you gained more yardages is because you always had bad field position to begin with. “If we didn’t go for two, If we didn’t have turnovers, If, if, if!” I guess you could also say if St.X didn’t play Lakeland they would have won state. Right!

“St X not even top 4 in the state”: It amazes me how you all tend to discount or downplay the greatness of your team(s) when they lose or don’t win state. Could the reason St X didn’t win state be because Lakeland exposed a weakness that other teams in Ohio were able to exploit? Or because they were so devastated by a lost, they were unable to regroup. See: Hoover 2006, Byrnes 2006, SLC 2007, Lakeland 2007 etc.

Ohio teams have more tradition and titles than Florida teams: Relevance? St. Ignatius and Moeller’s tradition is not based on play against Florida teams.

Yes, I take issue with teams always having to travel to Ohio for the Herbie. If national rankings and titles are based on the out of state competition played, Ohio teams will always have an advantage. There are so many inherent disadvantages to a visiting team that plays in Ohio or anywhere for that matter. Not only must visitors travel from out of state, in some cases a different time zone. They must also play on days and at times they are not accustomed to, without their fan base, not to mention the different state rules. Organizers call these sites neutral but they are anything but. Those Ohio teams play on those fields regularly, so they are more familiar with the conditions. For example, St X played Lakeland on the same field (U of Cincy) they played St. Ed on the week prior. Lakeland’s kicker missed numerous field goals in that game because the college field goals are narrower than in high school. Another issue was the artificial turf field conditions that many Lakeland players slipped on. Lakeland and the majority of other teams in Florida play on grass, not turf. This explains why Rainy kept slipping when he attempted to cut back prior to changing his cleats.

The point I am trying to make is this: amidst all those variables Lakeland still won the game when the odds were stacked against them. So please let it rest.

Anonymous said...

Northwestern and Lakeland shared the Beef 'O' Brady's all-class championship last year. So it's not outrageous to claim that Northwestern was the best team in Florida last year. I tend to believe that myself.

According to Massey, 6A was the best class this year. But I think your derisive comments about 6A have more to do with your ignorance of teams like Columbus, North Miami Beach, Coral Gables, etc.

Boone was intimidated. Period. Northwestern was too big and fast for them. But that doesn't mean you should diminish what they did. They beat teams like Apopka who everybody thought was Northwestern's destined opponent.

Anonymous said...

Lakeland won the game last year, and yes they did travel. the two teams were matched closely IMO.
The point I was trying to make is to the poster making a comparison to S Florida teams always being so great, this year and last year by using the X/Lakeland game.
My point was only this, a team not even in the top 4 in the State of Ohio, filled with JRs, put the eventual national Champs on the ropes.

JustaFloridaBoy said...

Anonymous 6:17:


In the13 years prior to 1994 when 4A and 5A were the largest classes in Florida, only 2 state champs were from Miami. Why? It’s because the state had an assortment of teams from various areas of the state competing in the southern brackets. In the13 years since 1994, when 6A was created, that number has risen to 9. Why? It’s because the FHSAA created 6A specifically for Miami teams and other large Metro areas in the state in order to increase revenue, and ensure they had a state champ from these areas. 6A is clustered in many areas of the state, unlike the other classes. Apparently, they got tired of the small rural town schools beating up on the big-city schools. It should also be noted: many of the teams that make up 6A—especially in the northern bracket—have never won or even challenged for a state title prior to 6A being created.

“Columbus, North Miami Beach, Coral Gables, etc”: what have they done in 6A besides beat other Miami teams? That’s the only reason they have respectable records. When was the last time any one of them made a serious challenge for a state title? You would have to go back over 25 years.

“Massey Says”: Any person in FL who knows a little about FB will tell you 5A, 4A and 3A were the best classes overall this year, as they typically are every year.

Beef’s Poll: This say’s it all.

Anonymous 10:44:

Understood! But just so that you know, Lakeland is in the Heartland of Central Florida, not South Florida, by the way, Congrats to St. X.

Lakeland! Return to Dominance 2008………..

Anonymous said...

the hill:

In response to your claim concerning Ohio vs. Southern Florida, St. Edward beat defending Florida 2A champs Chaminade-Madonna last year.

Anonymous said...

Nice exercise in faulty logic, justafloridaboy.

The fact is Northwestern just wasn't that good prior to the early 90's. Simple as that.

Southridge was robbed of a state title in 1983. They were always contenders.

Carol City won a title in 1977 but didn't really begin to dominate again until the early 1990's.

It had very little to do with the creation of 6A.

The dynamics change in the early 1990's. Can you please tell me how many state titles those other programs have won SINCE that time? Manatee, Escambia, Titusville, Suwannee, etc.

How many titles did Armwood win prior to 2003?

The state has changed. Those panhandle teams that used to dominate in the late 70's, early 80's are no longer the powers they once were. The power has shifted to the south.

Northwesern would win in any class as would those Carol City and Southridge teams.